Revelation 2:5
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen,....
Job 38:16;
....hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
Job 38:21;
Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born?
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1ST./ Beginning with Ps. 90:2; Prov. 8:23 & 26;
2ND./ Starting here, and working backwards into the dateless past into the depths of eternity past; based upon the one fact of Gen. 1:1; God created both the heaven and the earth.........which begs the obvious commentary that, if earth had a place, time, period in eternity when and where it did not exist, what about " the heaven " also....
was there a place, time, period in eternity past, when and where " the heaven " did not exist also ?
Isaiah 51:16
And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
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3rd./ Tenses, in the scriptures
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In English, there are three basic tenses: present, past, and future.
Each has a perfect form, indicating completed action;
each has a progressive form, indicating ongoing action; and
each has a perfect progressive form, indicating ongoing action that will be completed at some definite time.
PERFECT TENSES
Present perfect tense describes an action that happened at an indefinite time in the past or that began in the past and continues in the present.
Past perfect tense describes an action that took place in the past before another past action.
Future perfect tense describes an action that will occur in the future before some other action.
Present perfect progressive tense describes an action that began in the past, continues in the present, and may continue into the future.
Past perfect progressive tense describes a past, ongoing action that was completed before some other past action.
Future perfect progressive tense describes a future, ongoing action that will occur before some specified future time.
HOW MARKED / OBSERVED
Strictly speaking, in English, only two tenses are marked in the verb alone, present (as in "he sings") and past (as in "he sang"). Other English language tenses, as many as thirty of them, are marked by other words called auxiliaries. Understanding the six basic tenses allows one to re-create much of the reality of time in his writing.
E.G.
Simple Present: They walk
Present Perfect: They have walked
Simple Past: They walked
Past Perfect: They had walked
Future: They will walk
Future Perfect: They will have walked
AUXILIARY VERB signifiers
Perfect tenses are formed by the appropriate tense of the AUXILIARY verb [ some form of, to have] plus the past participle of the verb.
e.g.
Present Perfect: I have seen it.
(Present tense of to have plus participle. Action is completed with respect to the present.)
Past Perfect: I had seen it.
(Past tense of to have plus participle. Action is completed with respect to the past.)
Future Perfect: I will have seen it.
(Future tense of to have plus participle. Action is completed with respect to the future.)
The most common auxiliaries are forms of "be," "can," "do," "may," "must," "ought," "shall," "will," "has," "have," "had," and they are the forms we shall use in this most basic discussion.
in the - Present Perfect
The present perfect consists of a past participle with "has" or "have." It designates action which began in the past but which continues into the present or the effect of which still continues.
1. Betty taught for ten years. (simple past)
2. Betty has taught for ten years. (present perfect)
The implication in (1) is that Betty has retired; in (2), that she is still teaching.
3./ Now, let's apply this to Is. 51:16; "b"
Isaiah 51:16
"a" [And I have put my words in thy mouth,] "b" [and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth,] and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
[and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth,]
describes an action that happened at an indefinite time in the past
" I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand,"
The past perfect tense designates action in the past just as simple past does, but the action of the past perfect is action completed in the past before another action. i.e.
Past perfect tense describes an action that took place in the past before another past action.
A./ Does all this sound right, like it fits our text excerpt ?
PAST PERFECT action [ I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, ] that,
took place before some other past action
[ that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth,]
B./ In fact, Is. 51:16; embodies a multiplicity of tenses ( which is common when God Himself is speaking, owing to His "manifold wisdom" and knowledge of eternity in every possible tense whatsoever );
Isaiah 51:16
"a" [ And I have put my words in thy mouth,]
and
"b" [ I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand,]
"c" [ that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth,]
and
"d" [ say unto Zion,]
"e" [ Thou art my people. ]
NOTICE, how each statement has a different tense........
C./ Each tense referring to vastly different / differing epochs/epics of time - from Isaiah's contemporary times; to, before the earth was ever even created; to, present tense perfect senses regarding Zion.
D./ Not difficult to note, see and understand how easily senses and tenses can get away from observation. Something to bear and keep in mind when reading God's word.
E./ More relatively speaking, Prov. 8:26; as also, Is. 51:16; are starting points/places, as are others.......consider the ideographe below.
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4th./ PRE - CREATION SOUNDLY AND CORRECTLY A FACT OF GOD'S WORD !!!
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Moving a step forwards of Pro. 8:26; we encounter Is. 51:16;
Moving from Prov. 8:26; backwards deeper still into the dateless depths of eternity past what do we encounter ?
Now,
1./ To answer the question posed at the outset of this treatise....i.e. [ " if earth had a place, time, period in eternity when and where it did not exist, what about " the heaven " also....
was there a place, time, period in eternity past, when and where " the heaven " did not exist also ? ]
A./ [ Heavenly Jerusaelm ] and [ " the heavens " ] are not the same things. cf. Jer. 4:23;
I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. NOTICE, in this text [ " the heavens, and they had no light. " ] i.e. Prior to Gen. 1: 3-5; and, 1: 14-19; there was no celestial light - in " the heavens " i.e. the universe. Also,
Rev. 21: 23;" And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. " and,
Rev 22: 5;" And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: "
makes it abundantly clear that, there is plenty of light in THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN; THE KINGDOM OF GOD; THE CITY OF THE LIVING GOD; HEAVENLY JERUSALEM; JERUSALEM, WHICH IS ABOVE. So that, [ Heavenly Jerusaelm ] and [ " the heavens " ] are not the same things. And, also, Is. 51:16; refers to the creation of " the heavens " not HEAVEN. So that,
2./ When [ prior to / before " the creation of [ " the heaven(s) " ] is spoken of, it refers to " the universe as we know it " not HEAVEN itself. And, as such, Is. 51:16; makes it abundantly clear that, YES !!! there was a time, place, period in eternity's dateless past when and where the universe did not exist also. It too, as all created things, was created: this means dark matter itself was and is a created thing; as also every and all celestial object and things. cf. Gen. 1: 14-19;
3./ This leaves us with the " nothingness " that God hangs the earth upon - Job 26:7; He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing. i.e. the noumena itself.
4./ This means that, the big band is not the beginning of it all; and, the universe is more than linear distance from the epi-center of this big bang.
5./ HEAVEN, itself; and, eternity, itself ( the place and stuff that GOD inhabits ) is not physical; nor metaphysical. For lack of the better word, it is noumenal. i.e. nothingness. transcendent ephemeral noumena / nothingness. ( whatever such kind of a stuff may be made of / consist of . )
6./ One thing for certain is Ro. 1:20; " For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead;...."
A./ There are " invisible things " and, they explain quite alot about our reality.
e.g. atoms and atomic theory - i.e...." things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. " Hebrews 11:3. " understood by the things that are made, even his ( God's )eternal power and Godhead;...." Even science knows this !
B./ Invisible things: -
The word invisible appears 5 times in the word of God.
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
1 Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Hebrews 11:27
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
C./ Invisible things and nothingness, may well be synonymous, but I think they are distinct, seperate realities - invisible things, accounting for the many references to PARALLEL DIMENSIONS found in the Word of God: nothingness, accounting for the celestial forces that hold the universe in it's many and various stable states. So that,
whatever this type of stuff is made of, it has known, common and unknown, uncommon realities, properties and consistencies: e.g. the difference between phenomena and noumena.
